Anatomical Natt

nattish

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Anatomical Natt
nattish

Bloody lips.

You know what's just gnawing at me?

This phrase:

"He bit his lover's lip hard enough to draw blood."

And others to that effect.

Is that supposed to be sexy? Creative? Artistic?

It's none of those. If anything, it's clichéd (therefore boring), unrealistic (therefore pointless in most kissing and sex scenes), and just plain silly. Especially when it's followed up by something like, "It stung a bit at first, but as his lover licked at the wound the pain turned into pleasure."

What the hell are they---puppies?

I think it's safe to say that most people don't get off on feeling (physical) pain. I think it's safe to say that most fictional characters are included.

So why is this so common? I will tell you. Because a few people thought it was neat when Someone Unknown first used the phrase at the Dawn of Fandom; they copied it, and then people started copying them, and so fourth. Now it's commonplace. A throwaway line. A space-waster. Neither imaginative nor useful. I cringe if I come across any variant.

I also dislike it when applied to one person. For example, if Harry is being derided by Snape on a particularly bad day, he may bite his own lip in annoyance or frustration. Many times, an author will write that he bites to the point of blood trickling down his lip. The common reaction is for Harry to lick the blood away, without acknowledging his pain. Tell me, how is this so? Don't you react when you stub your toe, prick your finger, or have a run-in with the family cat's little claws? Not to mention pressing your blunt tooth through the sensitive flesh of your lip!

Not to say pain is out of the question, you crazy kids. But surely you can think of some other painful, sexual act to amuse yourself with? What about fisting? There should be more fisting in fandom. :)

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Ouch! It always turns me off because biting hard enough, with our blunt teeth, to draw blood, is fucking painful!

I don't like it either, but I'm sure there are people who do. There are as many kinks as readers! I, for one, hate most metaphors in sex: mushrooms (I can't stand a mushroom in a sex scene), lovers who bawls like cows and so on.

From the daily_snitch, I just had to ask ... mushrooms in a sex scene???? What the hell is that a metaphor of?

... rubbing his mushroom tip...

Omg that's pretty damn gross. I feel lucky I've somehow managed to avoid seeing that one in fics.

What about: *The moment that swollen red mushroom head brushed my lips* or *I swirled my tongue around the huge mushroom head* ... If you google for "mushroom" and "cock", or "mushroom tip", you'll get thousands of entries.

I'm sorry about my Grammar mistake above: "lovers who bawl like cows". Yep. Cows. Or worse: "like a pregnant cow". But many people loved it. Who am I to say it's gross?

Ow! I'm a lip-biter (my own, when stressed), but I never bite hard enough to bleed. I get a gross welt on the inside of my lip that is about as unsexy as it sounds. When I have accidentally bitten my tongue or cheek hard enough to bleed, it hurts like a mo-fo.

There are other places where biting hard (though to the point of blood? I dunno about that...) is a much more attractive prospect. The shoulder... the thigh... muscley places, y'know? *g*

I do this too, to myself, but it's a nervous reaction sort of thing that I always stop doing as soon as I realize I'm doing it. I guess it's equivalent to nail biting. I can't think of anything LESS sexy than lip biting. But of course, to each his own.

I too have always *hated* finding these lip biting/bleeding scenes in fanfic. They make me shudder. Obviously either the people writing them have no concept of what lip biting feels like, or else they've got no concept of what "sexy" means.

And I've never once seen anyone walking around with a bloody lip after being kissed. Nor has anyone ever attempted to bite my lip while kissing. If they did, they'd probably experience my knee to their groin, fast and hard.

As for fanfic sexual cliches, and there are so many -- this is definitely one of them. It always occurs to me that in over 50% of the cases, the sex cliches occur because so many of the writers are young/sexually inexperienced, and they base their sex scenes on what they've read, rather than on what they've experienced.

Ooh, I meant to say, surfed in from the Daily Snitch

As for fanfic sexual cliches, and there are so many -- this is definitely one of them. It always occurs to me that in over 50% of the cases, the sex cliches occur because so many of the writers are young/sexually inexperienced, and they base their sex scenes on what they've read, rather than on what they've experienced.

Agreed. I recall my own first sex scene, which I wrote at age fifteen; it wasn't terrible, and had a very close resemblance to real!sex, but I did draw many of my facts from other fics that I had read.

I've had someone almost do this lip-biting thing to me (my boyfriend in high school was a horrendously bad kisser) and I guess I was too busy whacking him on the side of the head right afterwards to notice if the "pain turned to pleasure". Jeez. Bite my shoulder or something, but don't bite my lip!

Yeah, there's a lot of biting going on in fics that I just don't care for. Gentle gnawing is one thing, but biting *any* body part enough to draw blood? Ick.

There should be more fisting in fandom.

That needs to be an icon :D

lol. You're right, there's far too much lip biting in fanfiction. I love biting(in sexual situations) but biting someone's lip is just... no. When the blood stops running there's this big ugly sore and no one wants that. Shoulders are more fun to bite. ^___^

(Deleted comment)
Ouch! Lip scab! I can't stand it when I loose the tiniest bit of skin on my lips. Pain.

I remember reading one rapefic, where there was lip biting, and not even then was there blood. But I know what you mean. :)

I'm not guilty of having written that. Yet. However I do bite my lips to the point of bleeding so yes, it can be done, and I do not wince or anything as I would with stubbed toe (probably because a stubbed toe is unexpected while the bite is expected and thus prepared for), so its never struck me as unrealistic to read that in a fic, though it seems more realitic when a character does it to themselves then to another, probably just because thats what I do. Heck sometimes I do it honestly and don't know i did it until Bugland tells me to stop it. However, lip biting for me is more an obsessive/compulsive act and i don't see most characters having this particular er 'bad habit'. I think bugland would be grossed out if I started bleeding from the mouth when snogging.

Stangely, come to think of it, while lip-biting isn't a big deal for me in fics, what DOES annoy me, is "bruised lips". I couldn't figure that out in the tea series among others, why was kissing always resulting in bruised lips? I'm picturing characters being propelled at eachother at 50 mph. Or punching eachotehr in the mouth (which would be fine, if their foreplay was actually a fist fight, but it wans't) I like pain, but I've never ever had my lips bruised when kissing... am I doing soemthign wrong???

And I'd second the more fisting comment- but since Ive read too many fics where my reaction is 'okaaaaay they haven't tried it have they?' i'm not sure I really want to see more of that. If people can't bother to research, they should stick to writign what they know.

It would work, I think, if it was character with a habit of biting his own lip to the point of blood, as you mentioned you can sometimes do. But often when I read it, it's a one-time thing, and the character is just like, "Oh, look, bloody lips. No biggie."

I second the "bruised lips" thing. Also, I don't like it when other characters can tell that one character has been kissing someone because their lips are slightly swollen. I doubt many people are that observant! :)

yep exactly. i don't think most people who are not already used to being bit this way, are going to not think anything of it when it happens. There likely will be an "Oooouch! What the fuck are you doing?" response. Maybe a few people WOULD react with a "Oh wow, i like that" response, but after the first time at *least( I think they'd be obsessing abotu it afterwards- like that there is this welt on their lip now and their tongue keeps bumping into it, and how it tastes, and now its starting to throb a bit, and what the hell is wrong with me for liking that, and going to look in the mirror and thinking 'oh hell, how am I goign to hide THAT'?

Like you said, its often seems to be soemthing someone thought looked good in their fic and others copied it without trying it, or at least, stoppign to think abot what it might be like. It seems to be another thing on those lists people make of what they find "hot or not hot" in a fic. Which comes down to that many people I think writing these scenes are thinking (consciously or not) about what will get them the </i>OMG that's so hot!</i> feedbacks, rather than what is *in character*.

Ohh, I so agree with you and nattish! :)

I wouldn't know about bleeding lips, because to me, that's only happened very rarely (but now that I'm thinking about it, they were caused by me biting them; but then, the skin already has to be very, very thin - maybe because of cold weather outside and me forgetting to put on lip balm or something..), and doing it to other people?? Helllooo?

Tugging at someone else's lips with one's teeth - yeah! Or getting one's lips tugged! (Teasingly, hmmmm!) But biting them? Until they bleed? No, I think people are really confusing those two.

About bruised lips: I think that's another case of confusing two things with each other. I guess most people have swollen lips in mind when they're writing about bruised ones. And yeah, mine can get swollen (and I guess other people's lips as well) after much/intense kissing, and I do not only feel it, but I can actually see they are swollen when I look into a mirror. But that's because I know what they normally look like, 'cause I see them in their 'normal' state a couple of times every day. Also, my skin's very pale, that's why the contrast between the colour of my skin and my lips becomes much more stark when they are swollen (and that's why I think that in my case, other people might also notice it).. In some films, you can also see 'swollen' lips, but then, those are usually a woman's lips, and we only get the impression because the woman in question is wearing lipstick and the lipstick gets smeared (if only to make the lips appear swollen)!! Anyway, I can't see many people (and even less men!) having their lips 'abused' to a degree that a (potential) swelling is actually visible....

Oh, and one more thing about bleeding lips (because I just had an idea..). I don't find the image erotic, but it could be that lips are just a convenient (or the most convenient).. uhm body part to 'produce' an 'accidental' trickle of blood. Because yeah, I find the image of a small trickle of blood somehow.. fascinating. Or sexy. (Just like I find fresh - rather, freshly healed - small cuts/scratches in people's faces attractive.) Anyone remember that scene in "The Entertainer"? Robert Redford? At the end of the movie, after he's 'shot'.. when he's lying on the floor and there's 'blood' trickling out of his mouth? Oh. Yeaaah. I can imagine now where those bleeding lips came from.. (though I still don't find those sexy. Like, at all.)

:)

I actually had my lips bruise once, but it was very slight. I don't think anyone but me noticed it. It's the sort of thing that happens when someone is very enthusiastically sucking their partner's lip. Make sense?

Anyway, I agree that in general, it's unrealistic. Especially when other people notice it. The only thing you notice is if there's marks on someone's neck.

I think this thread is hilarious, because I always figured the same thing -- god, who would DO that? Like, yeah, sometiems there's nibbling involved, but biting hard enough to bleed? Come on.

Then I started dating my current partner, and damned if she didn't bite my lip hard enough to make it bleed the very first time we made out. And you know what? It was kinda hot, it felt very passionate and uncontrolled. I mean, she's got very sharp teeth, and I like lots of nipping, and it just kind of happened... but yeah, sometimes in real life things get carried away.

As far as the people who say "oh, that hurts, you would never want that to happen in real life" -- well, you might not like it if a stranger came up to you on the train and pinched your nipple, even if you would enjoy that in bed. It's all about context. Chomping on your own lip while you are eating a sandwich is different from a little nip on the outside of your lip in the middle of making out. The endorphins of sex change pain tolerance a lot.

What about fisting? There should be more fisting in fandom. I agree... And you Icon rocks...

-V

Why, thank you. I like cute wittle Dracos. :)

THANK YOU. If there's anything I hate in fic is lip-biting, especially self-inflicted. It all started when I used to read fic in another fandom (rps, apologies) and this one author used to freaking ABUSE the lip-biting until I couldn't see it mentioned anywhere else without associating it with her. It didn't help that I got to "know" this person and what a complete twit she was, not to mention everything she wrote being horribly formulaic and cliche. It just conjures up childish imagery for me -- ever watch Bush give a speech and he bites his lip? Ok.

All I know is, I was bitten on the forearm by a four-year-old once. She didn't draw blood, but my god it hurt like bloody fucking hell, and I had a humongous bruise that lasted for TWO MONTHS. I find nothing sexy about being bitten to the point of drawing blood.

Ack! Little kids have sharp teeth! My sympathies. :)

Isn't the context a little different if it's a kid, though?

I think it's a matter of context and of taste. I doubt many people would enjoy the lip-biting, but there are definitely people out there who get off on being bitten.

It's kink, and some people like it but most people don't. No big secret. :)

Thanks for articulating this so well. I completely agree. The lip-biting cliche is one of my pet peeves. I guess I'm just not turned on by pain. Or by exchanging blood with another person...*shudders*

I like pain, I like blood, I like biting, I don't like lip biting that's so hard it draws blood at all. That's just rude, it makes an unsexy sore, and I just don't get it.

I agree, 100%. Maybe there are people out there who do like that, but I'm guessing that Harry probably isn't one of them.

I find it's a child thing. A lot of kids do it when they're nervous, angry or frustrated. It goes away with time, but it's there up until you're about 16 or 17. I've been told by a child psychiatrist it's because when you're young and you don't have much power, you do get frustrated when under the influence of emotions you're not allowed to express because of your environment. So they internalise it, like with chewing nails (another overused cliche sometimes), chewing the insides of their mouth, grinding teeth, and, in extreme circumstances, self-harm.

Heh heh. But when I first read this I thought you were referring to the old H/D thing there they always go at each other's lips like they're trying to bite each other's faces off or something. Hee.

But I do agree that I think it is a tad overused (understatement of the day, much?) and that there should absolutely be more fisting in fandom. One of the horribly neglected perverted acts in HPdom I find...

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

This has been bugging me for years now. It is not attractive. It seriously hurts, and it takes a lot of pressure to break the surface of the lip to the extent that you have blood running down your chin. Oh, what a gorgeous sight! It's not the kind of thing you can just do when you're angry, or trying not to laugh. At the very least, the survival instinct is so strong that you'll never be able to bite yourself so hard as you do when you're chewing and your teeth miss the food, or you trip and bite your tongue.

Exactly who thinks "Hmm, what this kiss needs is a bit of haemoglobin! Don't mind if I munch on your lower lip, do you?" It needs to be stopped now.

(here via daily snitch, by the way)

Hmm, what this kiss needs is a bit of haemoglobin!

HA HA HA!

I think I've tried biting my lip to see how far I could go before I had to stop. Didn't even make a mark. You're probably right about the survival instinct thing. I was afraid I'd bite a chunk of my lip clear off. Mm, what a snack.

Biting is sexy, drawing blood is nigh impossible! I mean, (and here I delve into TMI) I think as a kink, I could get into it, but I've never been able to bite through my own skin, though I have left marks (heh) and bruises on others. We're not vampires, for goodness sake.

Came in from the Daily Snitch

Biting lips until their boodly is only hot in my opinion if it's in the Buffy Fandom. Vampire and Blood go good together :P or like what someone said in rapfics.*shugs*

Re: Came in from the Daily Snitch

Haha, perhaps if it was a vampire doing to biting, yes, it would be realistic. I don't like vampire stuff myself, but... :)

I agree. I personally find nothing attractive with biting someone's lip till it bleeds. A bit too odd for me.

I've actually never read any fanfics with fisting in them, I didn't even thought there were any! Any suggestions on some good ones?

Since we are a bit on the subject of sex and cliches, I have one of my own. Why is it that every time a female has sex with a male (take Hermione and Draco for example) there is never any hint of a condom used and the girl never ever gets pregnant. Highly un-realistic if you ask me. I am assuming most if not all of the fanfic writers who have written sex scenes like this have gone to a sex-ed class and know the consequences of unprotected sex...

Most of the polite HP men cast a contaceptive charm. Snape has been known to provide a suitable potion. BUT there are a bijillion pregnant Hermione fics out there so apparently even the magical folk forget the rules of safe sex.

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